Topics

06N23J: Drip, drip, drip...


Bill
 

I filled up my water tank to full yesterday for the first time. I may have overfilled it. There is a drip from a weep tube underneath the gray/black waste and outdoor shower compartment. 

I filled the tank using the city water hook-up. i filled it until some water started spurting out of the fill on the passenger side. It was FULL. Then I checked the pump and the outdoor shower. All seemed fine. Since, it has been dripping. Cannot tell how the water is leaking into the compartment. But I can see it leaking out. What should I be checking? I suspect the water is still leaking from the full hose into the compartment and out the weep hole. Is there a trick to keep the water from flowing back through that city water valve?

Thanks in advance,
Bill


Jerry Knowles
 

I have the same problem.  It leaks out the siphon and is a bad design.  Winnebago told me not to fill it to the point that it overflows.  Fill only to the point that it shows full on your meter.
Jerry K
2018J


On Sep 24, 2020, at 7:57 AM, motobill@... wrote:

I filled up my water tank to full yesterday for the first time. I may have overfilled it. There is a drip from a weep tube underneath the gray/black waste and outdoor shower compartment. 

I filled the tank using the city water hook-up. i filled it until some water started spurting out of the fill on the passenger side. It was FULL. Then I checked the pump and the outdoor shower. All seemed fine. Since, it has been dripping. Cannot tell how the water is leaking into the compartment. But I can see it leaking out. What should I be checking? I suspect the water is still leaking from the full hose into the compartment and out the weep hole. Is there a trick to keep the water from flowing back through that city water valve?

Thanks in advance,
Bill


waydigs
 

OR---use a few gallons and it will stop "leaking"
Wayne


old_b4_my_time
 

On the 06 model, the "gravity fill" will have your tiny vent tube just to the side of the larger fill hole and water will spray out of there often while filling when you get near full and have a large garden hose end choked down the tube.    Pay no attention to the water spurting out here other than as a "full" indication.   Fill the tank to any desired level.   Water will likely slosh out anyway as you drive so may as well get it full.

You also with the 2006 have the option of attaching a hose on the city water fill in the water bay (on the 2006J this be the last panel behind driver's side) and then switching on the 90 degree turn valve to fill the tank.   If your side flap is closed while filling with this method, this still allows the vent hose to spray out the passenger side when the tank is full.   However, in this case, there will be no weep tube returning into the water bay and that little "woopie cushion" style valve that hangs down below won't leak unless you spilled some water in the bottom of your water bay.

So if you simply filled the tank from the passenger side while inserting a hose in what is termed "gravity fill" and once water began spraying, dripping out the side .... at this point, to all extents and variations, unless you actually used the city water inlet recently -  in most instances when you start the water pump and over time if water begins dripping out of that water bay behind the driver's side, then it likely means that your city water "check valve" is not seating properly and your pump pressure is causing the water to drip out of that it it is collecting in the water bay and dripping out the "woopie cushion" flap valve.   If that's the case, there are cleaning procedures that can be found with a search.   Or you can order a new one and go through a couple of "new defective" like I did LOL.

So what I am trying to say, is under normal circumstances in a 06 J unit, there is no feedback line back to the water bay and if water is coming out of there, you either dripped while filling the city water valve or the city water valve has become corroded or defective and under pressure you check valve there is leaking into the water bay.    (Or worse, your gray/black water valve is leaking - hope not!)

--
Don - 2006 Navion J


old_b4_my_time
 

City water valve leaking back into the water bay is an extremely frequently occurring problem.   You can search here and try cleaning that valve by removing and soaking in vinegar or simply (not so simple, actually) replace it.   But again, search will be your friend here and make sure that when your pump is on, the city water valve is dripping and this will indicate the valve is the issue.

Leaking of this city water fill valve is always an issue and often a recurring one.  Many have shared info here on how to attach garden hose devices to override this frequently failing piece of plumbing.   Do watch brass and lead content in any of these but there are processes to limit that exposure by soaking the brass in various solutions.   Still - Brewers continue to use brass for "more than potable" liquids ...  more can be found at http://howtobrew.com/book/appendices/appendix-b/brewing-metallurgy
--
Don - 2006 Navion J


Bill
 

I used PVC to plug the city water filler. Should be potable-water friendly. I think this solution should work indefinitely. But I’ll check out the valve seals. That’s a good call. Maybe there are just some deposits on the seals. I’ll search and see what others have done. 

Thanks,
Bill

On Sep 24, 2020, at 11:36 AM, old_b4_my_time <donphillipe@...> wrote:

City water valve leaking back into the water bay is an extremely frequently occurring problem.   You can search here and try cleaning that valve by removing and soaking in vinegar or simply (not so simple, actually) replace it.   But again, search will be your friend here and make sure that when your pump is on, the city water valve is dripping and this will indicate the valve is the issue.

Leaking of this city water fill valve is always an issue and often a recurring one.  Many have shared info here on how to attach garden hose devices to override this frequently failing piece of plumbing.   Do watch brass and lead content in any of these but there are processes to limit that exposure by soaking the brass in various solutions.   Still - Brewers continue to use brass for "more than potable" liquids ...  more can be found at http://howtobrew.com/book/appendices/appendix-b/brewing-metallurgy
--
Don - 2006 Navion J


Bill
 

Hi Don:

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I think the valve that allows you to either run off of city water or fill the tank off of city water (which is how I filled it) is not sealing in either position.  water is running back through the filler, into the water well, and out of the whoopee cushion seeper. I put a plug on the filler and it stopped leaking. I’ll have to drop the panel that holds that valve, the water pump switch, and the shower controls and check out the city/fill valve. I’ll post up the process in case the repair is not already documented. 

So, it wasn’t a matter of it overflowing, unfortunately. It leaked about 10 gallons over night. 

—Bill

On Sep 24, 2020, at 11:02 AM, old_b4_my_time <donphillipe@...> wrote:

On the 06 model, the "gravity fill" will have your tiny vent tube just to the side of the larger fill hole and water will spray out of there often while filling when you get near full and have a large garden hose end choked down the tube.    Pay no attention to the water spurting out here other than as a "full" indication.   Fill the tank to any desired level.   Water will likely slosh out anyway as you drive so may as well get it full.

You also with the 2006 have the option of attaching a hose on the city water fill in the water bay (on the 2006J this be the last panel behind driver's side) and then switching on the 90 degree turn valve to fill the tank.   If your side flap is closed while filling with this method, this still allows the vent hose to spray out the passenger side when the tank is full.   However, in this case, there will be no weep tube returning into the water bay and that little "woopie cushion" style valve that hangs down below won't leak unless you spilled some water in the bottom of your water bay.

So if you simply filled the tank from the passenger side while inserting a hose in what is termed "gravity fill" and once water began spraying, dripping out the side .... at this point, to all extents and variations, unless you actually used the city water inlet recently -  in most instances when you start the water pump and over time if water begins dripping out of that water bay behind the driver's side, then it likely means that your city water "check valve" is not seating properly and your pump pressure is causing the water to drip out of that it it is collecting in the water bay and dripping out the "woopie cushion" flap valve.   If that's the case, there are cleaning procedures that can be found with a search.   Or you can order a new one and go through a couple of "new defective" like I did LOL.

So what I am trying to say, is under normal circumstances in a 06 J unit, there is no feedback line back to the water bay and if water is coming out of there, you either dripped while filling the city water valve or the city water valve has become corroded or defective and under pressure you check valve there is leaking into the water bay.    (Or worse, your gray/black water valve is leaking - hope not!)

--
Don - 2006 Navion J


Paul Rouis
 

Bill, If you lost that much volume it is more likely the check valve behind the hose connection and not the diverter valve. Connect hose to city water and  see if the leak stops with pressure applied to the external side of the check valve to test it. Paul 07VJNY



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Fold, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Bill <motobill@...>
Date: 9/24/20 6:04 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: discussion@view-naviontech.groups.io
Subject: Re: [view-naviontech] 06N23J: Drip, drip, drip...

Hi Don:

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I think the valve that allows you to either run off of city water or fill the tank off of city water (which is how I filled it) is not sealing in either position.  water is running back through the filler, into the water well, and out of the whoopee cushion seeper. I put a plug on the filler and it stopped leaking. I’ll have to drop the panel that holds that valve, the water pump switch, and the shower controls and check out the city/fill valve. I’ll post up the process in case the repair is not already documented. 

So, it wasn’t a matter of it overflowing, unfortunately. It leaked about 10 gallons over night. 

—Bill

On Sep 24, 2020, at 11:02 AM, old_b4_my_time <donphillipe@...> wrote:

On the 06 model, the "gravity fill" will have your tiny vent tube just to the side of the larger fill hole and water will spray out of there often while filling when you get near full and have a large garden hose end choked down the tube.    Pay no attention to the water spurting out here other than as a "full" indication.   Fill the tank to any desired level.   Water will likely slosh out anyway as you drive so may as well get it full.

You also with the 2006 have the option of attaching a hose on the city water fill in the water bay (on the 2006J this be the last panel behind driver's side) and then switching on the 90 degree turn valve to fill the tank.   If your side flap is closed while filling with this method, this still allows the vent hose to spray out the passenger side when the tank is full.   However, in this case, there will be no weep tube returning into the water bay and that little "woopie cushion" style valve that hangs down below won't leak unless you spilled some water in the bottom of your water bay.

So if you simply filled the tank from the passenger side while inserting a hose in what is termed "gravity fill" and once water began spraying, dripping out the side .... at this point, to all extents and variations, unless you actually used the city water inlet recently -  in most instances when you start the water pump and over time if water begins dripping out of that water bay behind the driver's side, then it likely means that your city water "check valve" is not seating properly and your pump pressure is causing the water to drip out of that it it is collecting in the water bay and dripping out the "woopie cushion" flap valve.   If that's the case, there are cleaning procedures that can be found with a search.   Or you can order a new one and go through a couple of "new defective" like I did LOL.

So what I am trying to say, is under normal circumstances in a 06 J unit, there is no feedback line back to the water bay and if water is coming out of there, you either dripped while filling the city water valve or the city water valve has become corroded or defective and under pressure you check valve there is leaking into the water bay.    (Or worse, your gray/black water valve is leaking - hope not!)

--
Don - 2006 Navion J


Bill
 

As it turns out, Paul, it was probably more like 4 or five gallons. Still, the check valve makes sense. What kind of valve is it? Flapper? Ball? 

When I get to my computer, I’ll research the fix. Hope there are some instructions on how to test and fix it. 

Thanks,
Bill

"All-Thumbs Typing" and “Twisted-Tongue Dictation” courtesy of iPhone

On Sep 24, 2020, at 4:00 PM, Paul Rouis <prouis@...> wrote:


Bill, If you lost that much volume it is more likely the check valve behind the hose connection and not the diverter valve. Connect hose to city water and  see if the leak stops with pressure applied to the external side of the check valve to test it. Paul 07VJNY



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Fold, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Bill <motobill@...>
Date: 9/24/20 6:04 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: discussion@view-naviontech.groups.io
Subject: Re: [view-naviontech] 06N23J: Drip, drip, drip...

Hi Don:

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I think the valve that allows you to either run off of city water or fill the tank off of city water (which is how I filled it) is not sealing in either position.  water is running back through the filler, into the water well, and out of the whoopee cushion seeper. I put a plug on the filler and it stopped leaking. I’ll have to drop the panel that holds that valve, the water pump switch, and the shower controls and check out the city/fill valve. I’ll post up the process in case the repair is not already documented. 

So, it wasn’t a matter of it overflowing, unfortunately. It leaked about 10 gallons over night. 

—Bill

On Sep 24, 2020, at 11:02 AM, old_b4_my_time <donphillipe@...> wrote:

On the 06 model, the "gravity fill" will have your tiny vent tube just to the side of the larger fill hole and water will spray out of there often while filling when you get near full and have a large garden hose end choked down the tube.    Pay no attention to the water spurting out here other than as a "full" indication.   Fill the tank to any desired level.   Water will likely slosh out anyway as you drive so may as well get it full.

You also with the 2006 have the option of attaching a hose on the city water fill in the water bay (on the 2006J this be the last panel behind driver's side) and then switching on the 90 degree turn valve to fill the tank.   If your side flap is closed while filling with this method, this still allows the vent hose to spray out the passenger side when the tank is full.   However, in this case, there will be no weep tube returning into the water bay and that little "woopie cushion" style valve that hangs down below won't leak unless you spilled some water in the bottom of your water bay.

So if you simply filled the tank from the passenger side while inserting a hose in what is termed "gravity fill" and once water began spraying, dripping out the side .... at this point, to all extents and variations, unless you actually used the city water inlet recently -  in most instances when you start the water pump and over time if water begins dripping out of that water bay behind the driver's side, then it likely means that your city water "check valve" is not seating properly and your pump pressure is causing the water to drip out of that it it is collecting in the water bay and dripping out the "woopie cushion" flap valve.   If that's the case, there are cleaning procedures that can be found with a search.   Or you can order a new one and go through a couple of "new defective" like I did LOL.

So what I am trying to say, is under normal circumstances in a 06 J unit, there is no feedback line back to the water bay and if water is coming out of there, you either dripped while filling the city water valve or the city water valve has become corroded or defective and under pressure you check valve there is leaking into the water bay.    (Or worse, your gray/black water valve is leaking - hope not!)

--
Don - 2006 Navion J


Paul Rouis
 

Bill, It is spring loaded. If you have a washer with screen in the port try taking it out and you will see the end of the stem. Make sure the stem is centered. You should be able to push it in and align it and dribble out some water. (Dont try this with the pump on or the system under pressure or you will get a face full). Paul 07VJNY



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Fold, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Bill <motobill@...>
Date: 9/24/20 7:33 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: discussion@view-naviontech.groups.io
Subject: Re: [view-naviontech] 06N23J: Drip, drip, drip...

As it turns out, Paul, it was probably more like 4 or five gallons. Still, the check valve makes sense. What kind of valve is it? Flapper? Ball? 

When I get to my computer, I’ll research the fix. Hope there are some instructions on how to test and fix it. 

Thanks,
Bill

"All-Thumbs Typing" and “Twisted-Tongue Dictation” courtesy of iPhone

On Sep 24, 2020, at 4:00 PM, Paul Rouis <prouis@...> wrote:


Bill, If you lost that much volume it is more likely the check valve behind the hose connection and not the diverter valve. Connect hose to city water and  see if the leak stops with pressure applied to the external side of the check valve to test it. Paul 07VJNY



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Fold, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Bill <motobill@...>
Date: 9/24/20 6:04 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: discussion@view-naviontech.groups.io
Subject: Re: [view-naviontech] 06N23J: Drip, drip, drip...

Hi Don:

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I think the valve that allows you to either run off of city water or fill the tank off of city water (which is how I filled it) is not sealing in either position.  water is running back through the filler, into the water well, and out of the whoopee cushion seeper. I put a plug on the filler and it stopped leaking. I’ll have to drop the panel that holds that valve, the water pump switch, and the shower controls and check out the city/fill valve. I’ll post up the process in case the repair is not already documented. 

So, it wasn’t a matter of it overflowing, unfortunately. It leaked about 10 gallons over night. 

—Bill

On Sep 24, 2020, at 11:02 AM, old_b4_my_time <donphillipe@...> wrote:

On the 06 model, the "gravity fill" will have your tiny vent tube just to the side of the larger fill hole and water will spray out of there often while filling when you get near full and have a large garden hose end choked down the tube.    Pay no attention to the water spurting out here other than as a "full" indication.   Fill the tank to any desired level.   Water will likely slosh out anyway as you drive so may as well get it full.

You also with the 2006 have the option of attaching a hose on the city water fill in the water bay (on the 2006J this be the last panel behind driver's side) and then switching on the 90 degree turn valve to fill the tank.   If your side flap is closed while filling with this method, this still allows the vent hose to spray out the passenger side when the tank is full.   However, in this case, there will be no weep tube returning into the water bay and that little "woopie cushion" style valve that hangs down below won't leak unless you spilled some water in the bottom of your water bay.

So if you simply filled the tank from the passenger side while inserting a hose in what is termed "gravity fill" and once water began spraying, dripping out the side .... at this point, to all extents and variations, unless you actually used the city water inlet recently -  in most instances when you start the water pump and over time if water begins dripping out of that water bay behind the driver's side, then it likely means that your city water "check valve" is not seating properly and your pump pressure is causing the water to drip out of that it it is collecting in the water bay and dripping out the "woopie cushion" flap valve.   If that's the case, there are cleaning procedures that can be found with a search.   Or you can order a new one and go through a couple of "new defective" like I did LOL.

So what I am trying to say, is under normal circumstances in a 06 J unit, there is no feedback line back to the water bay and if water is coming out of there, you either dripped while filling the city water valve or the city water valve has become corroded or defective and under pressure you check valve there is leaking into the water bay.    (Or worse, your gray/black water valve is leaking - hope not!)

--
Don - 2006 Navion J


old_b4_my_time
 

Glad it helped a bit Bill but if water comes out of that female hose connection (used for both water filling and for constant city water supply, that line will always have pressure on it if there is water pressure in the coach.   If the pump is running then the pressure is created with the input of the pump connected to the water tank and the output to pump pumps pressurized into that same line which ends up where the female hose connector is located.   Thus it acts like a check valve where water can go in but it can't come out - of course except now when it is leaking   That female hose connector is always under pressure as long as the coach has pressure.   This is your plumbed "cold water line" all throughout the coach.    The water pump puts about 45 PSI on that line and that's why people are supposed to insert a pressure regulator in line to supply water to the RV via that female hose connector, If you connect the high pressure from your campground or home, the inline regulator keeps you from over-pressurizing that cold water line that runs through the coach.   That's also why Paul says don't press on the rubber flap check-valve behind the strainer because you will get sprayed if you stick a dowel or something dull in there trying to move it around and if it is under pressure from the inside pump.
--
Don - 2006 Navion J


Bill
 

This all makes perfect sense. It also seems that, since the check valve is near the bottom of the system, gravity will cause it to leak if that check valve isn’t closing. I think that was the problem I encountered. Of course, it would leak a lot more if under 45 psi of pressure. Don’t want to poke that bear.

—Bill

"'All-Thumbs Typing" courtesy of iPhone

On Sep 24, 2020, at 7:27 PM, old_b4_my_time <donphillipe@...> wrote:

Glad it helped a bit Bill but if water comes out of that female hose connection (used for both water filling and for constant city water supply, that line will always have pressure on it if there is water pressure in the coach.   If the pump is running then the pressure is created with the input of the pump connected to the water tank and the output to pump pumps pressurized into that same line which ends up where the female hose connector is located.   Thus it acts like a check valve where water can go in but it can't come out - of course except now when it is leaking   That female hose connector is always under pressure as long as the coach has pressure.   This is your plumbed "cold water line" all throughout the coach.    The water pump puts about 45 PSI on that line and that's why people are supposed to insert a pressure regulator in line to supply water to the RV via that female hose connector, If you connect the high pressure from your campground or home, the inline regulator keeps you from over-pressurizing that cold water line that runs through the coach.   That's also why Paul says don't press on the rubber flap check-valve behind the strainer because you will get sprayed if you stick a dowel or something dull in there trying to move it around and if it is under pressure from the inside pump.
--
Don - 2006 Navion J


younglr98
 

A garden hose threaded plug cures this defective fill valve easily and cheap with very little labor. Lol
Trivia. The “woopie cushion” “weep tube” is a simple 1 way valve used in medical applications for decades. Used to be called a “Hiemlich valve”, as most things medical are named for inventor. Hiemlich family atty has now, 50 years after the fact, eliminated that term as it is offensive, or trademarked by them. Sheesh.
Roger 07VJ Columbia River


Dennis Foley
 

PVC is not potable water friendly, not that I think one small plug will make a difference. Put a brass hose valve on it instead and just shut it off!


Steve
 

Dennis:
Upon what do you base your statement that PVC is not potable water friendly?


MichiganView
 

I’m not Dennis, but below is only one tiny quote of many from Google — hope it helps!  Bill  V12J  MI


"PVC, because of its high chlorine content, creates toxic pollution in the form of dioxins, which accumulate in animals' fat up through the food chain. Exposure to    PVC often includes exposure to phthalates, which may have serious health effects.”

Steve Wrote:
“Dennis:  Upon what do you base your statement that PVC is not potable water friendly?"


Steve
 

That seems contrary to Google searches. Perhaps depends on high chlorine content water, which may be the real issue. Here's the type response I get from Google:
                  

Is Using PVC Pipe for Potable / Drinking Water Safe?

This entry was posted on October 27, 2016 by Admin.


          
 
 
  

 

These days, contractors have a number of great options when it comes to residential plumbing pipe. The industry standard is still copper pipe, as it is strong and compatible with a wide range of fittings and pipes. It's also been around over 70 years and known to simply work by most contractors. Another emerging favorite is PEX tubing, a flexible and durable piping option. The main problem with these plumbing materials are their higher price tag. PVC is a cost-effective and durable option for potable water (Drinking Water).

For this reason, many thrifty contractors and home improvement enthusiasts turn to PVC pipe (product) and CPVC pipe (product) for their home plumbing needs. It is also a great insulator, so outside environments will not affect the heat of water inside the pipe. While many people only use PVC for drainage and cleanouts, it can be the sole piping material in a home when used in conjunction with CPVC. In this article, I will address some of the most common questions about using PVC for potable water.




Will PVC Pipe Affect Drinking Water?

PVC and CPVC pipe are both designed to withstand damage from virtually all corrosive chemicals and gases. Because of this, they have no problem transporting water over long distances & periods of time. Some people with new piping report water having a "slightly plastic taste," but this taste is not harmful and usually disappears quickly. Using PVC materials for potable / drinking water is not a health risk!

One possible issue with using PVC or CPVC for potable water is cleanliness. All pipes transporting potable water should be cleaned thoroughly before installation. This is as true with PVC as it is with any other type of pipe. Dust can collect on the inside of pipes while they are in storage or being transported, so a good, thorough clean is necessary if they will be carrying drinking water.

On Friday, September 25, 2020, 04:45:17 PM PDT, MichiganView <deepthinkers@...> wrote:


I’m not Dennis, but below is only one tiny quote of many from Google — hope it helps!  Bill  V12J  MI

"PVC, because of its high chlorine content, creates toxic pollution in the form of dioxins, which accumulate in animals' fat up through the food chain. Exposure to    PVC often includes exposure to phthalates, which may have serious health effects.”

Steve Wrote:
“Dennis:  Upon what do you base your statement that PVC is not potable water friendly?"


Dale Lucas
 

Everyone, 
Please look for "lead free" designation on all brass and painted hose fittings. 
Also,  I suggest removing any vinyl gaskets and replacing them with red rubber gaskets, found in plumbing, used for hot & cold washer hoses.  They last much longer & no  vinyl in your water supply. 
Dale 
12 J
Las Cruces,  NM


On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 2:30 PM, Dennis Foley via groups.io
<dennisfoleyplumbing@...> wrote:
PVC is not potable water friendly, not that I think one small plug will make a difference. Put a brass hose valve on it instead and just shut it off!





old_b4_my_time
 

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 07:05 PM, Dale Lucas wrote:
look for "lead free" designation
Also - don't use the lead-containing "lead-free" brass either ....
http://blogs.edf.org/health/2019/08/21/update-lead-from-new-lead-free-brass-faucets/

My dad used to hold led pellets in his mouth and pinch the lead fishing weights as needed to the trot line with his teeth - he lived to 94.   Our studio audience may not live that long, so don't spend too much time at the Home Depot looking for what brass or PVC to use.   (Wonder what happened to the plastic tequila bottles - speaking of leaching!   That's what you call HIGH OCTANE!)  :-)
 
--
Don - 2006 Navion J


Dennis Foley
 

I based my anti PVC statement on the plumbing code.  40 years as a plumbing contractor.  CPVC is allowed but not PVC for potable water   But I still don’t think 1 small plug would cause a problem, I just wanted to point it out.  


Polyvinyl Chloride

A study printed in the "Journal of Environmental Engineering" found that, in homes built before 1977, installed PVC pipes were found to leach polyvinyl chloride into drinking water at levels above the maximum allowed contaminant level. Levels were tested at dead-end pipe segments, where water stagnates. The study recommends installation of manual or automatic flush valves to reduce concentrations.