Topics

Emissions


waydigs
 

As others have posited, MB did agree to pay for repairs to Emissions system that didn't meet the Calif & USA  rules.  It affects vans up to and through 2016 so that probably means that if you have a 2017 View etc you'll be under the recall.
There is no requirement that they buy back your unit, or give you any monetary settlement.
Wayne-Kallyfornia
'16View "V" model


TheS1R
 
Edited

There is a $3290 settlement per vehicle from Mercedes.


John Walker
 

The San Diego Union Tribune this morning alluded to a separate class action suit and implies that there will be a financial payout to present and past owners. Wonder if that's to compensate for a reduction in fuel mileage that will be a result of the recall or if it's to partially compensate for a reduction in resale value?  I don't know for certain that mileage will be reduced or that resale value will drop, just wondering if anyone has more info on this?

John in San Diego
2016 Navion "G"
--
If a dog can do a judge's job and issue a search warrant, why don't we replace all the judges with dogs? They work for kibble and are more fun to pet.


TheS1R
 
Edited

There are supposedly separate additional payouts in the event that mileage or performance drops below certain thresholds. 

Tom
2016 Navion 24G (2015 chassis)


Dan Booher
 

I bought a used 2016NJ  1st week of January this year.    Do I need to take any action, or will I be contacted by Vin#  like a recall?

Thank you

Dan


waydigs
 

I may have read it wrong, but the way I interp;ited it was the $3200 + - "pay out" was to pay for the recall and the necessary repairs.  I doubt if you are going to get a check for $3200.00   Don't hold your breath !!
Wayne '16 V


Steve Alabaster
 

OK, here is the real deal. After reading the posts I did a little googling and it appears that this class action suit was just settled in last few days. Actually brought by a Seattle attorney, Steve Berman, who was the attorney in the Volkswagen debacle and in the more distant past the tobacco industry. This looks important for all current and former owners of 2009-2016 BlueTEC diesel sprinters, both 4 and 6 cylinders (I presume we have BlueTEC).  There will be Approved Emission Modifications (AEM) with an extended warranty on these AEMs. There can be up to $3290 compensation to current owners to compensate for loss in performance related to the new AEMs (How is that determined who knows) We should be notified by mail in the near future so there is technically nothing to do at this point.  If you call your Mercedes service center at this time (as I just did) they will probably not know anything about this yet.

Recommend going to this website to get a good overview:
https://www.hbsslaw.com/cases/mercedes-bluetec-emissions/pressrelease/mercedes-bluetec-emissions-700-million-mercedes-diesel-emissions-class-action-settlement-details-announced

I hope that those on this forum who had to pay for various emission related issues out of warranty might get some reimbursement out of this settlement. I left a voicemail at the attorney’s and hopefully will get a call back so I can ask more questions and will post what if anything I learn.

Steve  16NJ  Still Smokey WA state


MichiganView
 

EPA posted the following [attachment] regarding the MBZ ‘Emissions Settlement’. Please read the end of the document, which mentions a ’30 day period for public comment’. A few EPA official’s email addresses are supplied — please email all your thoughts and comments to EACH of the EPA officials ASAP. 

Here are a few thoughts I will share: 1/  Sprinters have TWO Nox sensors not ONE — both should be included as required replacement  2/  Once MBZ has been required to update software, ECU, and remove their numerous items of junk hardware - our rigs most likely could get lower mileage, have less power and generally perform less well than we came to expect and paid hard earned money to enjoy —owners should be given, not only super strong, overall warranty assurance/coverage for those and/or any RELATED losses, but they should also publish commitments to potential owners not to be concerned about loss of future quality of service, because of their commitment to make everything RIGHT. 3/ Since it could potentially take a year or more before MBZ is required to begin recall repairs — it is very possible that public perception during that period of time could create extremely detrimental effects regarding the resale value of our rigs — some owners will not be able to wait over a year to get their rigs updated before they sell due to health or other uncontrollable life issues —therefore, MBZ must provide serious financial compensation ASAP, in such cases! 

The EPA’s posting is both good news and bad for those of us who already own a Sprinter included under this umbrella. It would be reasonable to expect each owner of a Sprinter - any year - to email thoughts regarding those involved. If 8,000+ owners comment during the 30 day period - it may make a big difference to the EPA and its actions?   Bill  V 12 J  MI   

"As others have posited, MB did agree to pay for repairs to Emissions system that didn't meet the Calif & USA  rules.  It affects vans up to and through 2016 so that probably means that if you have a 2017 View etc you’ll be under the recall. There is no requirement that they buy back your unit, or give you any monetary settlement”.  Wayne-Kallyfornia  ‘16View “V" model


bike_for_life2003
 

Based on our experiences with the VW debacle I offer again the following thoughts:

1.  If you own an affected vehicle you are automatically in the class unless you opt out.
2.  Once the class action suit is resolved/adjudicated (which this one apparently was, you will be contacted with options.
3.  Any payments will require compliance with the updates/changes/recalls agreed in the settlement.
4.  If you live or have the vehicle registered in a state that has emissions inspections (e.g. California),  declining to have the mods done may paint yourself into a corner.
5.  If you didn't opt out of the class when notified, the chances of suing independently are slim and next to none.

Now, regarding loss of value on Views/Navions...  The suit was all about Sprinters... This means any loss of value remuneration would ONLY apply to the cab, not the coach...  Additionally, if you choose not to have the emissions mods accomplished... they will show as outstanding recalls if a potential buyer is doing her/his homework.... This COULD affect resale value.

YMMV,

Paul and Christine
06 View 23H in NW FL

--
-----------------------
Paul and Christine
06 View 23H in NW FL


TheS1R
 
Edited

The EPA has posted a wealth of information, including the proposed fixes, which include replacing NOx sensors and more for the Sprinters: CAA Civil Settlement. The full Consent Decree is also posted -- a lot of legal jargon, but a lot of detailed info, too. Appendix A actually shows details of the EXTENSIVE (greater of: (1) 10 years from date of initial sale or 120,000 miles on the odometer, whichever comes first; or (2) 4 years or 48,000 miles from the date of installation of the AEM, whichever comes first) and COMPREHENSIVE extended emissions warranty, covering a lot of the items where most of us have experienced premature failures. The $3290 payment is compensation for Mercedes' diesel emissions deficiencies -- you will need to have AEM completed for payment.

I was caught by the VW scandal as well -- I drove a VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI at the time. I have been following (and a part of) the Mercedes case since early 2016 as a class member.

Tom
2016 Navion 24G


Dale Lucas
 

Thanks Tom,
I've never been good with abbreviations.
So, what is AEM?
Dale
12 J
Las Cruces, NM

On Wednesday, September 16, 2020, 09:00:36 AM MDT, TheS1R <visortgw@...> wrote:


The EPA has posted a wealth of information, including the proposed fixes, which include replacing NOx sensors and more for the Sprinters: CAA Civil Settlement. The full Consent Decree is also posted -- a lot of legal jargon, but a lot of detailed info, too. Appendix A actually shows details of the EXTENSIVE (greater of: (1) 10 years from date of initial sale or 120,000 miles on the odometer, whichever comes first; or (2) 4 years or 48,000 miles from the date of installation of the AEM, whichever comes first) and COMPREHENSIVE extended emissions warranty, covering a lot of the items where most of us have experienced premature failures. The $3290 payment is compensation for Mercedes' diesel emissions deficiencies -- you will need to have AEM completed for payment. I hear that there may be an additional payment from Bosch (co-conspirators) as well.

I was caught by the VW scandal as well -- I drove a VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI at the time. I have been following (and a part of) the Mercedes case since early 2016 as a class member.

Tom
2016 Navion 24G


Keith Taylor
 

I just want Mercedes to pick up the tab cfor replacing  the DEF tank that is shorted to ground replacement at 44,000 miles and 7 years old and the EGR valve at 26000 and 4 years old that it looks like both the $$ is out of my pocket.

Keith

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get Outlook for Android


From: discussion@view-naviontech.groups.io <discussion@view-naviontech.groups.io> on behalf of waydigs <diggsmail44@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 5:33:09 PM
To: discussion@view-naviontech.groups.io <discussion@view-naviontech.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [view-naviontech] Emissions
 
I may have read it wrong, but the way I interp;ited it was the $3200 + - "pay out" was to pay for the recall and the necessary repairs.  I doubt if you are going to get a check for $3200.00   Don't hold your breath !!
Wayne '16 V


Steve Alabaster
 

Dale, AEM means Approved Emission Modifications which are the modifications to be done on our vehicles.  The class actions attorney’s office returned my call so I was able to ask some questions. One was whether past repairs paid out of pocket would be reimbursed.  Unfortunately the proposed settlement does not contain language to pay for past out of warranty repairs to the emission system. However as Bill pointed our there is a 30 day comment period which I believe will end in December.  The current settlement is the proposed and not the final. So I also strongly recommend comments to be sent asking for reimbursement for emission repairs especially to DEF system. I will ask also for items such as wheel speed sensors which are in emission warranty to be covered by extended warranty.  The attorney stated that the final settlement will probably be different than the proposed one, with comments being a factor for change.  Regarding compensation, the attorney stated that payment is a flat payment to all owners of qualified years, ie. $3290 or $2467 if the vehicle had a previous owner who asks to be part of the suit and who would get $823.  

The links provided previous are excellent explanations as to the current status. I am including info sent to me by the attorney’s office. 

Steve  16NJ  WA state

 

Hi Steve,

 

It was nice talking with you today. We have reached a proposed $700M settlement with Mercedes in the Mercedes BlueTEC litigation. The settlement compensates current and former owners and lessees, provides an EPA and CARB emission modification free of charge, and an extended modification warranty. Current owners and lessees can get $3,290 or more, and former owners and lessees can get $822.50.

Owners of affected Mercedes diesel vehicles can receive the following:

  • An Approved Emissions Modification (AEM) free of charge and an extended modification warranty. From a separate settlement with federal and California regulators, these benefits are available even if you do not participate in the class action.
  • Protection pending the modification’s effects to your vehicle. AEMs installed in affected vehicles will come with additional protection, should the AEM affect your vehicle’s performance. Affected owners are slated to receive compensation depending on whether the AEM affected fuel economy, horsepower, torque and/or other aftereffects of the emissions modification. Owners may also be able to receive payment for transportation costs in the event their installation of an AEM takes more than three hours to complete.
  • Payment for Mercedes’ diesel emissions deficiencies. Under the settlement, current owners and lessees can receive $3,290 if no former owner/lessee submits a claim for the same vehicle. If a former owner/lessee does submit a claim for the same vehicle, current owners and lessees can receive $2,467.50. Former owners and lessees can receive $822.50, divided equally among former owners/lessees who submit claims for the same vehicle.
  • Additional payment. For current owners and lessees who have an AEM installed, additional payments may be available under various circumstances. Owners may also receive additional payment if an AEM is not available by October 2022.

 

Today, the court entered an order granting preliminary approval of the class action settlement with Mercedes. The final approval hearing will be on January 25, 2021. You should receive a notice of settlement soon via mail. The full details of the settlement will also be available at http://www.mbbluetecsettlement.com/.
  
What do Mercedes owners need to do now?
To obtain a payment under the settlement, eligible former owners/lessees must submit a complete claim by the later of 75 days after the notice date, or the date the Court finally approves the settlement.
 
Current owners/lessees must have the AEM installed and submit a claim by October 1, 2022 in order to be eligible to receive money.  AEMs will become available on a rolling basis after Mercedes’ separate settlement with U.S. authorities is approved; please continue to check the Settlement Website for updated information.  You may also call 1-877-313-0170 toll-free to find out whether an AEM is available for your Subject Vehicle.  For more details about the AEMs and Extended Modification Warranty, please visit bluetecupdate.mbusa.com.
 
In the coming weeks, there will be a Settlement Website (www.mbbluetecsettlement.com) with further information about the settlement, as well as updates about the deadline to submit your claim.
 
Affected Models
Affected BlueTEC vehicles include:

  • E250 BlueTEC 2014-2016
  • E350 BlueTEC 2011-2013
  • GL320 BlueTEC 2009
  • GL350 BlueTEC 2010-2016
  • GLE300d 2016
  • GLE350d 2016
  • GLK250 BlueTEC 2013-2015
  • ML250 BlueTEC 2015
  • ML320 BlueTEC 2009
  • ML350 BlueTEC 2010-2014
  • R320 BlueTEC 2009
  • R350 BlueTEC 2010-2012
  • S350 BlueTEC 2012-2013
  • Mercedes-Benz or Freightliner Sprinter (4-cylinder) 2014-2016
  • Mercedes-Benz or Freightliner Sprinter (6-cylinder) 2010-2016

 
Let me know if you have additional questions or concerns.

 



bike_for_life2003
 

Dale,

AEM is short for "Approved Emissions Modifications"...

It's not an abbreviation, it's an acronym... subtle but important difference.
I do notice that only Blue Tec motors are included in the class.

I reiterate one last time (based on my experience with VW) that if you do nothing you are in the class by default.  If you didn't opt out of the class and choose not to have the emissions modifications made, don't expect any remuneration from M-B.  Choosing not to have them made could adversely affect your ability to pass emissions inspections if you live in a state which adere's to California Air Resource Board (CARB) standards... This may also affect your ability to sell the vehicle later.  Forewarned is forearmed, eh?

Good luck and best wishes for prudent decisions!

-------------
Paul and Christine
06 View 23H in NW FL


waydigs
 

I am all for clean running motors, but I can not understand how reducing MPG (and therefore  putting more exhaust gasses out the tailpipe) can reduce emissions.  Even though those emissions may be cleaner, putting one/ third more gasses out, no matter how clean they are, can't be a good thing for global warming.

IF I have heard correctly, the MPG may drop quite significantly:  so more fuel used = more emission out the exhaust.?
Wayne '16 "V" model


Steve Alabaster
 

And more fuel used, more def required

Steve  16NJ  WA state


waydigs
 

More DEF, they gotta' find more horses.
W


Robert Heywood
 

The bottom line here is that MB lied and cheated us with their “clean BlueTech” technology. When we retired in 2016, we chose the MB Sprinter chassis because we were led to believe that it ran clean and got markedly improved MPG over any other chassis in the compact class C category.  We are truly heartbroken and discouraged that our “some other brand” baby, that we have spent at least 6 months of each of the last 4 years and 60,000 happy miles, was all along breaking our laws and spewing poison into the air. We are always looking at other RV alternatives, but always come back to our beloved “Moose”, happy that we made that choice.  Now what?!?  We get the privilege of waiting in line with 75,000 other owners of V6 Sprinters (250,000 MB’s total), so we can get some Rube Goldberg fix sometime in the next 2 years that will maybe comply with the law, and will surely compromise performance.  Oddly, we also went through the VW fiasco, but there our 2010 Jetta Sportwagon with 100,000 miles was bought back for about 1/2 of what we paid for it. Plus, when the news broke, they sent us $1000 as a good-will gesture.  Mercedes is supposedly a “premium” brand, yet look at just how sleazily they truly are. VW got their feet put to the fire to the tune of over $20 BILLON for 500,000 much less costly vehicle, and heads rolled over in Germany.  MB is getting off pretty easy with their $3 billion penalty, and we are left holding the 11,000 pound bag. Why is that? Is the EPA maybe just a shadow of its former self? The $3200 check will be little recompense for the hassle, frustration, lower power, and higher operating costs. 

We are disgusted with this news and how it is playing out. 

Bob & Cynthia
2017 SunSeeker 2400W on the 
LYING, CHEATING, STEALING, POLLUTING MERCEDES BENZ built V6 Diesel 2016 Sprinter. 


On Sep 17, 2020, at 11:49 AM, waydigs <diggsmail44@...> wrote:


More DEF, they gotta' find more horses.
W


MichiganView
 



Bob, Cynthia, et al -

I agree with your sentiments! and angst. My suggestion might be that you and ALL other Sprinter owners - of any model - share this same frustration with the DOJ in the next few days. The DOJ is accepting public comments over the next 30 days, prior to final determination of the MBZ Class Action. Our words and thoughts have much power!  Bill  V12J MI  

"The bottom line here is that MB lied and cheated us with their “clean BlueTech” technology. When we retired in 2016, we chose the MB Sprinter chassis because we were led to believe that it ran clean and got markedly improved MPG over any other chassis in the compact class C category.  We are truly heartbroken and discouraged that our “some other brand” baby, that we have spent at least 6 months of each of the last 4 years and 60,000 happy miles, was all along breaking our laws and spewing poison into the air. We are always looking at other RV alternatives, but always come back to our beloved “Moose”, happy that we made that choice.  Now what?!?  We get the privilege of waiting in line with 75,000 other owners of V6 Sprinters (250,000 MB’s total), so we can get some Rube Goldberg fix sometime in the next 2 years that will maybe comply with the law, and will surely compromise performance.  Oddly, we also went through the VW fiasco, but there our 2010 Jetta Sportwagon with 100,000 miles was bought back for about 1/2 of what we paid for it. Plus, when the news broke, they sent us $1000 as a good-will gesture.  Mercedes is supposedly a “premium” brand, yet look at just how sleazily they truly are. VW got their feet put to the fire to the tune of over $20 BILLON for 500,000 much less costly vehicle, and heads rolled over in Germany.  MB is getting off pretty easy with their $3 billion penalty, and we are left holding the 11,000 pound bag. Why is that? Is the EPA maybe just a shadow of its former self? The $3200 check will be little recompense for the hassle, frustration, lower power, and higher operating costs. 

We are disgusted with this news and how it is playing out.   

Bob & Cynthia

2017 SunSeeker 2400W on the 

LYING, CHEATING, STEALING, POLLUTING MERCEDES BENZ built V6 Diesel 2016 Sprinter. 


William Finley
 

Hello

Here is a link to a discussion on this emissions recall on the Sprinter Source WWW site.
The most positive thing I read was that some of the VW diesel owners who kept vehicles impacted by the VW scandal are quite happy with new parts, cleaner running car, extended warranty, and that those cars are "sought after" due to the improvements. Blue Def usage was increased, but Mileage, and performance was not severely impacted. (at least for the VW diesel recall/fix).

Guess time will tell.

Bobnoxious is one of my favorite posters over there... it's impossible to calm him down. LOL


Of course with my old rig, I have no blue def and no horse in this race... best of luck to all will be interesting to see how this all works out.
Maybe time to buy a used 2016, from a less knowledgeable owner and harvest the free MB money and repairs they are going to pass out.

At this stage , who knows. Best of luck to all.

Bill 06vh


On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 5:30 AM MichiganView <deepthinkers@...> wrote:


Bob, Cynthia, et al -

I agree with your sentiments! and angst. My suggestion might be that you and ALL other Sprinter owners - of any model - share this same frustration with the DOJ in the next few days. The DOJ is accepting public comments over the next 30 days, prior to final determination of the MBZ Class Action. Our words and thoughts have much power!  Bill  V12J MI  

"The bottom line here is that MB lied and cheated us with their “clean BlueTech” technology. When we retired in 2016, we chose the MB Sprinter chassis because we were led to believe that it ran clean and got markedly improved MPG over any other chassis in the compact class C category.  We are truly heartbroken and discouraged that our “some other brand” baby, that we have spent at least 6 months of each of the last 4 years and 60,000 happy miles, was all along breaking our laws and spewing poison into the air. We are always looking at other RV alternatives, but always come back to our beloved “Moose”, happy that we made that choice.  Now what?!?  We get the privilege of waiting in line with 75,000 other owners of V6 Sprinters (250,000 MB’s total), so we can get some Rube Goldberg fix sometime in the next 2 years that will maybe comply with the law, and will surely compromise performance.  Oddly, we also went through the VW fiasco, but there our 2010 Jetta Sportwagon with 100,000 miles was bought back for about 1/2 of what we paid for it. Plus, when the news broke, they sent us $1000 as a good-will gesture.  Mercedes is supposedly a “premium” brand, yet look at just how sleazily they truly are. VW got their feet put to the fire to the tune of over $20 BILLON for 500,000 much less costly vehicle, and heads rolled over in Germany.  MB is getting off pretty easy with their $3 billion penalty, and we are left holding the 11,000 pound bag. Why is that? Is the EPA maybe just a shadow of its former self? The $3200 check will be little recompense for the hassle, frustration, lower power, and higher operating costs. 

We are disgusted with this news and how it is playing out.   

Bob & Cynthia

2017 SunSeeker 2400W on the 

LYING, CHEATING, STEALING, POLLUTING MERCEDES BENZ built V6 Diesel 2016 Sprinter.