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Water pump cycling intermittently.
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rwal@...
This problem has been with me since I bought this rv 6 years ago. The water pump would come on for a second or so every once in a while. My first thought was a water leak. Well, I couldn't find one. Next, checked the check valves - all okay there. Must be the pump - so I replaced the pump portion. Still no luck. Replaced the pump with one of the variable speed ones. This seemed to have cured the problem. Not so. The pump was still cycling - it was just running at a very slow speed and I couldn't hear it. Well, the DW could. So, I thought about it for a while and figured out that maybe the problem was with that Fill/Normal valve. After all, if you turn the valve to Fill with the water pump turned on, the pump runs. So, after a lot of contortions, I managed to get that valve off and, sure enough, when at the Normal position, I could blow air through it. So, this was dropping the water line pressure and causing the pump to turn on. Now, I'm thinking that this valve has been bad from day one. Anyway, on the 2011 NJ, the WBG part number (114431-03-000) is actually a Flair-It 06884. Getting the pex pipe off the old valve involves working the pipe off of the connector by wiggling it side-to-side ... trust me - pulling it straight off is darn near impossible. Ray W. 2011 NJ, 2011 Chassis, Richmond, B.C.
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younglr98
The way to remove Flair-it fittings is to just bend the tube off the barb like you are breaking a twig. And, yes you can just put new fitting back on the used portion of the tube.
This info from the mfg who I talked with several years ago. Roger 07VJ E WA
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rwal@...
Thanks, Roger. I was hoping that the tubing could be re-used. I wasn't sure if this would work or not.
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rwal@...
I should have seen this one coming. Got the new valve today. I pressure checked it at 40 psi and no leaks when the valve was closed. So, I put it in, turned the valve on and off a couple of times then turned on the pump. Pump cycled to build up pressure and then stopped. No low speed flutter as with the old one. Great! Problem solved. So, I put everything back together again. Turned the valve from normal to fill and back a few more times. Then the pump started its fluttering and I could hear a hissing sound from the valve. <Insert swear word or words of your choice here> So, back apart it comes. I checked the valve and it's leaking just like the old one when closed, although not nearly as much. These valves are rated to 120 psi, so I doubt the new pump is giving anything near that pressure and blowing the valve up. Anyway, I'm getting another one from a different supplier and let's hope this second new valve works. Just as a question ... could pushing the plastic hose onto the barb on the inlet and outlet maybe have screwed up the valve?
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Tom Proulx
I replaced 2 of them and gave up. Replaced it a third time and never moved it. I always use my gravity fill. That was 11 years ago and all is well.
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Tom in NY 06NH
On Aug 20, 2019, at 7:12 PM, rwal@... [View-NavionTech] <View-NavionTech@...> wrote:
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John Kirby
Ray, this is such a common problem. Could you post some pictures of the valve now you have one out? Does it look like it could be disassembled and possibly repaired? I can't help feeling there has to be a way to fix this issue for good. I have been tightening the Fill/Normal valve handle when it starts to leak by and this usually cures it for a brief while, but now its so stiff to turn I feel its going to brake off soon!
Maybe someone has found another valve that fits and lasts longer than a few months? Anyone? John K 2016 VJ NW WA
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ken seigle
Come to think of it, I never had any problems with my diverter valve until I started using it to fill the tank. I used to always use gravity fill. Ken 06nh
On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 05:18:28 PM PDT, Thomas Proulx proulxtf@... [View-NavionTech] wrote:
I replaced 2 of them and gave up. Replaced it a third time and never moved it. I always use my gravity fill. That was 11 years ago and all is well. Tom in NY 06NH
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rwal@...
Thanks to John, I took a closer look at this valve. It's a drainage valve, not a normal valve. There's a little arrow on one connection (that you can't see unless you REALLY look at the thing). This inlet is for the pressurized side. The other connection is the drain and can't take any pressure. So, the original valve was installed backwards - the water line was connected to the drain side and the inlet side was connected to the fresh water filler line. So, I pressure tested the inlet side (by pure lick) and didn't see that the connections behind the water control panel were on backwards. Since this valve's connections are at 90 degrees, reworking the piping behind the water panel is going to be interesting, to say the least - there sure isn't a lot of room to work in here. So, I won't be getting that replacement for the replacement ... for the time being, anyway. However, I will be needing some more of the plastic pipe. Now, John ... I can send a few pictures of this old valve, but I don't think they'll do anybody any good. This thing is glued together, so no repairs are possible. With the old valve (which was also getting harder and harder to turn), it looks like the cylinder that turns inside the valve housing to control the water flow had started shaving plastic off the housing. Now, as to whether or not having the valve hooked up backwards caused this, who knows.
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John Kirby
Well the Valve being installed incorrectly answers the question as to why. Now, how best to fix it? Who is the manufacturer of the valve? They may make a right and left hand valve!
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John K 2016VJ NW WA
On Aug 20, 2019, at 9:03 PM, rwal@... [View-NavionTech] <View-NavionTech@...> wrote:
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Ray, Sorry you're having this issue but thanks for sharing your remedy. I carry a flair-it 06884 spare. Have you or anyone else found something more durable? I look around for a few hours and didn't find one. If that valve failed and I removed it and capped off both sides of the valve, would that be ok? If yes, I realize I'd only have the gravity fill remaining. Is this correct? Is this fill/normal diverter for city fill the same valve as is used for the water heater bypass and the winterization. My 06 J model has those 2 other valves on a panel in the storage compartment under the bed. Thanks, John 06INJ Tampa
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rwal@...
John. If your fill/normal valve is like the one on my 2011 NJ, one pipe in is from the cold water supply and the other one is the fill pipe for the fresh water tank. So, putting a plug into both lines would effectively take the valve out of the 'circuit'. The piping is white 1/2" PEX and you can get quick connect end plugs (Watts makes them, for one) that you just push on the pipe.
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rwal@...
Darn this yahoo groups thing. It seem like you can't read a message while responding to it. I have no idea about the hwh bypass valves. I never use them so I hope they don't go bad on their own. They do look similar to the fill valve.
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rwal@...
It turns out that these valves can be taken apart. The knurled thing just under the turning handle just screws off and you just pull it apart. On the attached jpg is the valve disassembled in the order it came apart. The thing that actually controls the flow is a rubber-like cylinder shaped thing. Then, there's the thing (that the handle pushes onto) with four 'arms' that turn this rubber cylinder. Note in the picture that 2 of these arms have broken off and this caused the valve to not work very well because one of them got squeezed between the cylinder and the valve housing. The knurled thing just screws onto the valve body to hold it all together. It looks like the only easily replaceable bit is the o-ring. However, if your fill/normal valve is hooked up correctly, and the valve body hasn't been cracked or scored, you can just screw off the knurled thing, pull the old valve innards out and shove in new ones from a new valve. So, the next time this valve causes me grief, I'll try this first. Replacing this valve on the 2011 NJ is a severe pain. Ray W. 2011 NJ 2011 chassis Richmond B.C.
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rwal@...
Thanks to all for the comments and assistance on this repair. By cutting back on a few of the pipes behind the water control panel, I got the valve to fit in correctly. No water pump cycling so far. The real test will be tomorrow morning when I turn the pump on. I hope this fixes the problem. I sure don't feel like going through this exercise again any time in the near future. Ray W. 2011 NJ 2011 chassis Richmond B.C.
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Thanks for the picture Ray. Inserting components sounds a lot easer than getting behind that panel. Not sure about other models, but the J model's "water control panel" isn't fun to gain access behind. I looked on Flair-It's site. Evidently, they sell the component parts of that valve and the valve. Didn't do the math. May be cheaper to buy the valve and disassemble it. John 06INJ Tampa
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[snip] ..."If that valve failed and I removed it and capped off both sides of the valve, would that be ok? If yes, I realize I'd only have the gravity fill remaining. Is this correct?" To All - Just a heads up in case anyone is thinking of eliminating this valve. It may be advisable to integrate a low point drain valve, if winterization is performed? Bill 12VJ MI
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younglr98
2 thoughts.
Don’t turn your Fill/normal valve, or any of the others while under pressure/load. Turn to Fill, then turn on supply hose. Disconnect supply hose, then turn to Normal. Remember, you can also fill by using the Winterizer hose to suck out of a bucket or container. Roger 07VJ EWA
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lamar1948
On my 2016 M there is an access panel underneath that can be removed for access to the back of the water control panel. I don't know if other years and models have this.
Larry 16 VM IL
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rwal@...
Excellent thought, Bill. Since I live in the lower mainland of B.C. winterization hasn't been much of a problem. I use my air compressor to blow all of the lines out. Thinking of how this fill/normal valve works, the water can't get blown out of this line unless the valve is in the fill position. Now I'm wondering if freezing may have caused the complete failure of this valve - we did have a couple of weeks below freezing last winter. So, regrettably, I must retract my notes on just capping off those two hoses - the valve is needed to fully drain the water in this section of the plumbing but can only be blown out if the valve is in the fill position. As well, the only way to get antifreeze into this particular section of piping would mean running the antifreeze through the pump with the valve in the fill position ... in the normal position, there's quite a lot of pipe that won't get the antifreeze because of the way it has been plumbed.
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Paul Rouis
On a related note/similar concern I had to replace my city fill port/check valve because the person that winterized it did not remove the washer/screen and bleed the valve. Even after filling the piping with antifreeze I get some clear water out when depressing the check valve stem. After the pain of changing the port I overkill and drain a couple of ounces of antifreeze into a cup to make sure the pipe and valve are filled with antifreeze since it often gets -10F here. Paul 07VJNY
From: View-NavionTech@... [mailto:View-NavionTech@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:28 PM To: View-NavionTech@... Subject: [View-NavionTech] Re: Water pump cycling intermittently.
Excellent thought, Bill. Since I live in the lower mainland of B.C. winterization hasn't been much of a problem. I use my air compressor to blow all of the lines out. Thinking of how this fill/normal valve works, the water can't get blown out of this line unless the valve is in the fill position. Now I'm wondering if freezing may have caused the complete failure of this valve - we did have a couple of weeks below freezing last winter.
So, regrettably, I must retract my notes on just capping off those two hoses - the valve is needed to fully drain the water in this section of the plumbing but can only be blown out if the valve is in the fill position. As well, the only way to get antifreeze into this particular section of piping would mean running the antifreeze through the pump with the valve in the fill position ... in the normal position, there's qu ite a lot of pipe that won't get the antifreeze because of the way it has been plumbed.
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